Scaling Up Your Impact Podcast

Ep 18 - Infant & Early Childhood Mental Health with Sarai Trujillo, LPC

• Kelly Smyth-Dent, LCSW • Episode 18

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In this episode of Scaling Up Your Impact, host Robyn Mourning welcomes Sarai Trujillo to explore the vital work of infant and early childhood mental health. Sarai shares her experiences as a therapist, mother of seven, and grandmother of ten, highlighting how relational support, attachment, and early interventions can empower parents to become healing agents for their children—even in the midst of life’s challenges.

Topics include:

  • Supporting parents in high-stress or complex environments


  • Integrating relational and therapeutic work with EMDR


  • Building buffering relationships and community support


  • Encouraging growth mindset and embracing “whoopsie moments” in parenting


  • Practical strategies for fostering attachment and social-emotional development from birth through early childhood


Books & Resources Mentioned:

Sarai also shares tools like the Working Model of the Child Interview and tips for empowering parents while supporting relational and emotional development.

If you’re a therapist, agency, or community professional interested in infant and early childhood mental health, Sarai offers training and consultation to help you integrate these strategies into your work. Connect with her here to schedule a consultation or bring a training to your team.


Robyn Mourning: Welcome back to the Scaling Up Your Impact podcast, everybody. I am Robyn with Scaling Up, and I am really excited to be coming, um, live again with a special guest. Talking about infant and early childhood mental health. This is really a great topic because we have a lot of people asking us about, um, working with infants and young children, and… teenagers, and, like, how… how do you tie it all together? How do you… work with various forms of trauma or other adverse experiences with kids that either don't have the language at all, or are developing the language for their experiences, but are obviously expressing a lot of distress, and need support in various ways. So, we're gonna dive in today with Sarai Trujillo, who is an amazing therapist, um… community, um, connector… I don't know, there's so many awesome ways to describe your work, Sarai.

But before we do that, just a reminder that this Scaling Up Your Impact podcast is a really neat podcast in that we deliver practical, trauma-informed tools, mindset shifts and clinical strategies for therapists who want to grow without burning out. We're here to help you along that journey and that path in a way that feels values aligned, and rooted in sustainability, so that you're able to keep doing the work that you love to do for as long as you would love to do it.

Sarai, welcome back to the show. So grateful to have you join us and share some time with us. Last time you were on the show, you talked about perinatal mental health, so anyone who hasn't checked that out, definitely go do that after listening to this episode. And as I mentioned, we're going to be talking about infant and early childhood mental health. Sarai, hello, welcome back. Share with the listeners a little bit more about you and your work, um, before we get started.

Sarai Trujillo: Hi, Robyn, thank you. It's good to be back. And… yeah, as you said, my name's Sarai Trujillo, and I'm located in Colorado. And I have a small group private practice where I work with a range of ages, stages of development, and issues, because I work in a rural community, and have always, um… you know, worked with all ages and all kinds of issues because of that. Started out in community mental health, and then moved into private practice later. And I think… in addition to that, I am a mother of seven children, and yes, I birthed all those babies. They're grown now. But, um, that's given me a lot of personal lived experience in… um, working with children and understanding infants. And then… I have ten grandchildren now. And… have just kind of leaned into… professional opportunities that I've had to learn and understand more about infant and early childhood development. And in fact, before I became a mental health therapist, um, after I had my undergrad degree and was still kind of figuring out what I wanted to do further on… I worked as an Early Head Start home visitor, so that's really where I got my foundation in working with the 0 to 3 age range, going into families' homes, and walking them through different stages of development. And that was really beautiful work, um, that I loved, and… as I was doing that work, I recognized that I particularly loved the social-emotional aspect, the social-emotional development, the bonding and attachment, the relational pieces. And that actually gave me a lot of foundation to then go forward and decide to become a therapist and get my master's degree in… um, mental health. So, a little bit about me and how I got here.

Robyn: Yeah. Amazing! How fun that had to have been. I love that age range, the 0 to 3. So fun. I remember with my own child, just how fun those years were. Obviously, there was… it's a lot of transition and change, learning how to be a parent to a new one, no matter which number it is, your first or your seventh, it's such a transition, such an experience. And learning how that child is… like you were talking about, bonding and attachment and just that social-emotional piece, it's so… it's such a cool time, I think, in a person's life. I miss it. I'm in the teen years now, the early teen years with my kids, so I'm like, I remember when you were one, and… you just wanted to help all the time. And now you're like, “Mom, I don't want to go. Talking to my friends!” Okay. Um, so yeah, it's such a great time, and I can understand being really drawn to learning more about that experience for young children. And so, yeah, I love that you explored that, and now you do so much work in this area, in your personal life, you know, loving on your grandbabies, and living on kids in the community.

Tell us a little bit about how you work in the community now. Like, what are some of the things that you do in your practice when you're working with infants and young children?

Sarai: Yeah, I think… when I… backing up a little bit, when I became a… who graduated from my master's program and became a therapist, I immediately started working as both dual early childhood infant mental health consultant and family clinician in community mental health. And so, from that point on, part of my week was spent in early childhood classrooms, supporting teachers, supporting parents, supporting children, doing still a little bit of home visit work, but mostly in various school and early childhood settings. And then the other half of my time was spent in the office, doing clinical mental health counseling with… again, all ranges of populations, but one of the few therapists in the Community Mental Health Center who was comfortable working with the younger ages and stages of development. So, from there, one of the things that was really difficult for me to leave Community Mental Health and go into private practice, which is what I had always wanted to do, was to leave behind that aspect of being in the classrooms, doing that consultation work, the team-based work.

So, one of the things that I did is continued to get my own consultation so that I could continue to work with other professionals who work with young children. And so, I continue to get that support and consultation, that peer support. And also, joining different organizations or being involved in community, whether it be with the library that is doing a special parent program, or the hospital wanting to have me come out and talk about a specialty topic, working with Postpartum Support International, just different ways to be able to keep those connections and those relationships going, continuing to work with the Colorado Association for Infant Mental Health in ways where I'm taking ongoing continuing education and helping with their endorsement processes. And so these have been ways that I've been able to stay connected to that infant and early childhood community.

But in my private practice, most of my work is still one-on-one with parents seeking support, offering maybe a parent group that I might walk them through, like, a Circle of Security parenting program, or a Child-Parent Relationship Therapy program. And really partnering with parents to empower them to be a healer for their own child. That's where my real passion is right now, as far as how this work looks.

Robyn: Um, in the very end there, you said something that reminded me of what we talked about in the perinatal mental health episode, which was something to the effect of, when you're working with pregnant people, and helping them to heal or continue their journey towards emotional, social, mental health, all of that. You're also helping the developing baby, the fetus, and also the newborn. And you just talked about how supporting parents in this way so that they can be empowered to be a healing agent for their child, it just feels like such a through line, right? And I would love to explore that a little bit more, if you're open to sharing. What that means and what that looks like in practice, what does it mean as apparent to a 3-month-old to be a healing agent for them?

Sarai: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a beautiful question, and I do think… perinatal mental health and infant mental health and early childhood mental health are so interconnected, and it's all relational work. I think sometimes I'll get the question, like, “what do you do, like, therapy on infants?” It's like, well, kind of. It's relational, though. You know, you've got a caregiver in there that you're working with. And so, think about, for example, a caregiver who maybe has a really difficult traumatic birth experience. Maybe their baby was born early, their child, their baby spent some time in the NICU, there was some disruption to the bonding attachment that normally happens in those first couple of weeks, where we're just kind of falling in love with each other. But this parent had to go home, and I've had this experience myself when I gave birth to twins, so I'm speaking also from personal experience of how that can feel so isolating and disruptive to a caregiver. And how, with the right kind of relational support, a therapist can come in with psychoeducation about the difference between bonding and attachment, about rupture and repair, and all of these beautiful concepts that let caregivers know: A, you're not alone, there's nothing wrong with you, and that there is care and support here, and that repair can be made. And to help them come up with a new story, like, it doesn't have to continue to go in this certain direction. There can be shifts made, and it can… the story can change course. And I think those are some of the things that prevent so many worst-case, worse scenarios further down the road. Like, this is early intervention, prevention work, and it can be so important and powerful for parents, and then children in those critical developmental phases, to get that kind of professional support.

Robyn: Yeah. Mm-hmm, yeah. I'm curious how that idea of the story can change and the perspective can change how that… because the examples that you brought up seemed to be related to circumstances that might get better, right? So, a baby might not always be in the NICU. A baby might not always, um… right, like, those types of situations might not be long-term. How do you support new parents in being healing agents for their infants when their circumstances may not change? You know, it could be environmental, it could be related to economic things, disability, all the things that maybe the circumstances won't change. But can the story still change? And how does that look long-term, maybe the first three years, right? If we're talking about the infant to three years, and maybe during that three years there's some chaotic, high-stress scenarios. What does it look like in that case? Because I'm guessing a lot of people will have that question, just like I did.

Sarai: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so we're talking about our social, political, cultural place in the world and how that's impacting these critical years of development. And so for me, again, there's a lot of… this is relational work. So, a lot of psychoeducation. What parents are often held responsible for so many things, and feel responsible for so many things, that it's helpful to tease apart what's realistic and what are unrealistic expectations being put on you. And I think often about this example from Dr. Bruce Perry in his book Born for Love. It's about how to increase empathy. But he talks about historically how for each baby being born into the world, historically, throughout human families and many different places around the world, there have been about four adults for every infant born, for available adults, whether parents, aunties, uncles, grandparents, to meet those emotional, developmental needs of that infant. And you think about how in our culture and time and place, that ratio is flipped—not only in the family, where there is one or two adults that are now set up to meet all of the needs of this new baby, but then when that baby or toddler goes to preschool, now we have ratios if you're in an infant classroom, maybe there are four adults, or sorry, for infants to every one adult. So that ratio's flipped. And then, of course, as you go up into a preschool classroom, those ratios get even larger as far as children to adults in the classroom. And so the pressure we're putting on parents and caregivers to meet all of this, I think it's very validating for people to hear and understand, like, you're being asked to do a lot more than what has historically been asked of parents to do. So how can we, with that information, start to work together to build a team and a care of support for you and to take away some of the shame around asking for help, about bringing more caretaking in?

Sarai: Yeah. Um, and that can be really hard, frustrating, long work. And so, it's also not work that I'm in and out of really quickly all the time. It's like, I'm one of those people that might be in your team for a while.

Robyn: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. It's not short-term, you know, three to five sessions, and you're good. Or, you know, one class and you're good. It's an ongoing type of support, and it feels like, at least how you do it, you are part of that community. You're not quote-unquote just a resource, right? Or just a service provider. You're part of their support community for them to be able to learn, for them to be able to offer what they can, and then have you offer what you can, and really share that. And I think that's a beautiful way of expressing it.

Sarai: Mm-hmm. And that's very much individualized, like I said, for folks who may be… you know, need or deserve a little bit more of that support versus other folks who may do have access to more resources and care networks. And it's still about, like, how do we build that for you?

Robyn: Yeah, yeah. I remember a key thing from my own childhood was determining… you know, I knew, because of various circumstances, I knew I had to find trusted adults outside of my nuclear family. And I don't know how I knew that. I think we're wise beings, you know? And so part of me just knew I had to do that. I wasn't consciously seeking out or interviewing people, obviously, but it was kind of connecting with the parents of my friends. Which ones felt safe enough for me in case I ever needed something? Or when I was at their house, you know, how did I feel? And what need that met versus when I was at my house. And, obviously, I was older than three months or three years, but I remember then that turned into me being a teenager and really finding that at times when I really, really needed it, because of the way that my parents were not able to be available to me as much as they wanted to be, they couldn't because of life circumstances, health and illness, you know, all of that stuff.

So, when I became a parent, before I became a parent, I wanted that to be one of the main values or main things that I wanted to instill in my parenthood journey. To communicate to my child, you know, you… I wanted to give her that permission to be okay talking to someone that's not me, or feeling safe with someone that's not me, because I… you know, I didn't want her to feel any kind of guilt, like, “I'm supposed to talk to my mom.” Well, yeah, I would love for you to talk to me. Love it. And also, I'm one person. Even if I had every resource available, full capacity, got all my sleep, all my nutrients, all the things to fill my cup, I'm still just one person. And I don't believe that we can give everything that another person's gonna need, no matter who it is.

From the very beginning, I surrounded myself with people who… well, it was kind of an accident. My close friends and I all had babies in the same year, year and a half. But these were friends that I intentionally remained really connected to during those times because of that value, and because of knowing that my three-month-old has no idea why I'm doing this. But my 13-year-old will experience the benefits, and be like, wait a minute, this has been like this my whole life. Even when it feels like I'm completely alone in a scenario, or through a period of time, I know that we've set up… you know, we won't be alone. And if something were to happen to me, my child would not be alone. There are people. And when she just doesn't want to talk to me, because I'm, you know, weird, boring, old mom. Okay, you know, here's other people. Or when she's really struggling, she can talk to other people. And I know that there's… that feels like something that you were talking about, like, that feels like being a healing agent from the moment I knew I was pregnant. There's a lot that's gonna have to be done in terms of my own relational healing process, because it's not easy, as you know.

Sarai: Absolutely, yeah. And I just think that's so beautiful how that can be expressed, and that looks so different now than it was when she was an infant. Things get complicated in many ways. And I've noticed, and maybe you've noticed this in working long-term with your families, that it seems to be pretty cyclical. You know? It's like, now we're kind of doing some of the things that you might do with your families when you're working with a family with an infant. Like, we are doing some of that stuff now, and we've done some of it before, and I don't know, it just feels like this cyclical process. And we're never… I feel like we're constantly, because it's so relational. It's like, I feel like we're always going back to those initial bonds. And those initial years and those initial months. And when it feels really hard, we ultimately want what we felt, or what we wish we had during those early months.

Sarai: Personally, I love the attachment in EMDR. I think I could just talk about that all day long, because in my experience of doing EMDR therapy with folks, almost everything, if there's a relational component to it in the here and now, goes back to early childhood, goes back to those initial experiences, like you're talking about. And it's not just with the parents, but it's with all the different caregivers. So you're talking about… community, and having friends, and there's a book out, Hunt-Gather Parent, and she talks a lot about allo parents, and that's sort of the term of how many Indigenous cultures around the world, who haven't been too impacted by Western industrial parenting shifts, still have a lot of allo parents involved in the upbringing of children. And those can be older siblings, or other aunties. And like I said, other relatives. And so these early caregiving relationships, those early attachments, so much goes back to it. And I think a piece that I keep in mind as a professional in this field, and that I also hope that parents can take in, is this concept of living through really difficult times. We have difficult experiences happen in life, whether that is an early medical trauma, birth, NICU, a diagnosis of a disability, social, economic, marginalization, oppression. There's awful things happening. And when we have buffering relationships in our lives, that can be the difference between an experience being a traumatic experience, a toxic stress-level experience, versus a tolerable stress-level experience that doesn't become a huge trauma in our lives. And so, when I think about this as relational work, I also think about the power of buffering relationships in our lives, in our children's lives.

Robyn: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Robyn: That's a great way of describing it, because there's a lot that people want, the reassurances that we want, around different things about being a caregiver or a parent for our young children, our babies. We forget that sometimes it's just us, or the allo parents, or other caregivers in their lives. That's it. They just need us. And they don't need the 400 toys, or the most perfect playlist to fall asleep to. Those things could be helpful and supportive to get through those really adverse experiences or challenging times. Often all they need is us. And it seems so simple. And sometimes that's the thing we feel like we can't offer. How do I offer myself in a way that supports my baby and my child when I feel like I have nothing to give? I'm barely making it too. It's not about being perfect, it's just being enough in that moment. And because of what you were saying about how there's so much expected of one or two parents in the U.S., I think there is a common expectation that we have to be our best self all the time for it to be enough. You know? And that's just not possible, firstly. So then you were saying, then there's the shame, right?

Robyn: Mm-hmm.

Robyn: Um, that comes with that. So when it comes to that aspect of things, what are some things that you have found helpful, grounding, or reassuring for parents, especially of newborns and young children, when it's so trying? It's brand new with this new baby, and maybe there's a lot going on, with the baby being uncomfortable, or you're not sleeping, or the quote-unquote terrible twos, which makes it really hard sometimes for us to be our best selves, not even taking into account what's going on in our own personal being, in our work, or whatever else. What are some things you've found really helpful for parents and caregivers during those moments?

Sarai: Yeah, um… one story coming to mind is actually with one of my own children, who was getting ready to have their own first child, and came to me, you know, as mom, and also as an expert in the field. And said, what is the one thing that I can do that's gonna be the best thing for this baby? Yeah. I don't want to break my baby. What do I do? What's the secret? The one thing. What's one thing? And you know, this is a child who's very concrete, and so my brain was like, crap, I get to say the one thing, what would it be? But then I quickly kind of settled into… enough care for you. When the parent is felt like they are cared for, they have enough sleep, they have enough resources and support, that translates to the baby. And so if I had to say what was the one thing, that's it.

Um, but one of the ways that I sometimes get to what the parent is struggling with, or what they need, and so what then can we focus on in treatment, is the Working Model of the Child Interview, which I've been trained in, and Tulane University offers this very easily accessible training. It really pairs beautifully with EMDR therapy, from my perspective, because with the Working Model of the Child Interview, it's a structured interview process that you're doing with the parent, and you're getting a sense of their internal schema, their internal working model for their child, for their relationship with their child, whether it's an infant or a young child. You get so much deep insight on the tone of the first couple weeks postpartum, what were some of your thoughts even during pregnancy, impressions about this child, who does your child remind you of? And then it also gets into the struggles. Where are your biggest activating… where do you get the most distress in the relationship with your child? So you can start to see how then my EMDR brain starts going, okay, follow the distress. Those are the things to focus on in targeting for EMDR reprocessing. Because if we can then update this parent's internal working model to be more adaptive, instead of “I'm a bad parent,” instead of that shame cycle, to see all that they have done and be able to change that, it changes the trajectory of the relationship with their child and how they're able to show up and be a parent. So that's a beautiful sort of pairing that I found in this work: the Working Model of the Child Interview that I learned in my early childhood, infant mental health trainings, and then EMDR therapy.

Robyn: I love that. I've never heard of that. I've never heard of that, but I could see how they really do go well together, and that just seems so powerful.

Robyn: It made me think of a question that seems a little out of nowhere, but given… I think it was your question about the first two weeks, or the part about what was your impression of this child, and then I was thinking, what was the impression they were having of themselves while they're pregnant? “When I give birth, I'm gonna be this kind of parent, I'm gonna do these types of things.” And I don’t mean those aspirational things, like “I'm never going to co-sleep.” I mean those little intricacies, like how they're gonna handle their own feelings while they're handling their baby, or their worldview, or “I didn’t think I would feel so frustrated and have a tone of voice.” Those little things as well. I think all of that encompasses it.

And I think about, how do you think social media—especially when it comes to infant and early childhood influencers—display or portray what it is to be a parent during these times, or how to provide… could be any type of influencer that's out there, you know, having a baby, doing things, look at my haul, my Amazon haul, 500 things from Amazon, all of these baby things, this perfect, curated profile around early childhood years. So I'm really curious what… you might have a million thoughts about it and opinions, but I'm super curious about how you think social media has shifted the way that new parents perceive themselves and how they would be with their child, and then when it doesn’t line up in real life. I'm so curious.

Sarai: That's an interesting question, and I don't know that I can speak to it too much. You mentioned when you were a parent bringing your child into the world, you surrounded yourself with friends and support, and I did too. My children are adults now. One of those friends I stayed in touch with recently reminded me, “We're the elders now.” So when you're talking about social media, I'm like, I don’t know that as the elder now that I really understand what… I do have children who are parenting in this day and age, and from what I understand from them and some clients I work with, it's a mixed bag. They might learn something really helpful, like about a book, Hunt and Gather Parent by Michaeleen Doucleff, that’s really helpful. And there is intense social pressure to have parenting look or be a certain way. But if I come back down to the foundations of infant, early childhood mental health work, it’s relational work. Again, being an elder, it's hard for me to understand how social media can be relational in the same way that I'm talking about, with buffering relationships, with people, real live people who show up.

Robyn: Yeah.

Sarai: Who can allo-parent with you, with your children, and you can allo-parent with them with their children. For me, those seem like two very separate worlds, and there might be something I'm not understanding about that social media can provide that, because again, that's not like my generation.

Robyn: Right. Yeah. I think about when you were talking about the ratios now, at least here in the U.S. and other Western industrialized places, the ratio… parents don’t have allo parents, or they are more isolated. Because of that and many other factors, it seems like there could be an attempt to replace. “I don’t have this, but I can go online and see other people doing it and learn from them, and then I don’t feel alone.” Right? I may not have someone to ask advice, you know, “this is happening, what would you do?” which is part of the community allo-parenting dynamic, getting that support and advice for those tough moments. And it's not a complete replacement because social media is not relational and it often leads us to even more disconnection.

Robyn: I was pregnant during the boom of Pinterest. Being a Pinterest mom was all the thing. It was such a pressure. I remember feeling that, even with close friends, they were feeling the pressure too. That meant learning how to make your own baby food, look at this Pinterest whatever, and it’s like, we have no idea what we’re doing, and that’s okay, to not know what you’re doing. But you’re relying on a post, an online blog, versus getting together with your friend, like, do you want to experiment with baby food? Would that be fun? Or are we doing it because Pinterest is telling us this is what it means to be a good mom?

Sarai: Mm-hmm.

Robyn: And I feel like that was a powerful thread in my early years of parenting. How that led to now, years later, after feeling like I could not measure up to that, compounded. From making your own baby food, having it set up in jars that look fantastic in a photo, to having the perfect birthday party with all these things. And it was before we had influencers on Instagram, it was just Pinterest. And then it became, there was a time where me and my friends and some clients were repulsed, because it just created such toxic stress in us. I can’t even show up to be a relational parent because I’m so worried about not measuring up to what social media says I should be doing. I’m not doing that for my kids, but I’m doing these things. Is that okay? Yes, it was absolutely okay, and that’s actually what’s needed. They don’t need the themed birthday party.

Sarai: Mm-hmm.

Robyn: And so I think that’s why that question popped up for me, because how people seek connection during parenting, seeking guidance, sharing the load… we may not have anyone to share the load with, but if I go online and see other people doing it, it’s like I’m tricking my brain into thinking I’m not alone, sharing the load in a very odd way that we know is not real either.

Sarai: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think it’s so important to show up for parents in a way that there’s empowerment. As you’re describing this effect of social media, it felt very disempowering as a parent. Rather than empowering. And at the end of the day, after parents work with me, I hope they feel like, “I’m a good parent. I’ve got this.” That they feel empowered, regardless of what’s happening in their lives. I can handle it, I’ve got this, I’m a good parent. I know who to trust, I know how to resource. I can trust myself. And then those things are passed on to children to also feel empowered, that they've got somebody who’s got them.

Robyn: Yes!

Sarai: And so yeah, I think if social media could do that, that would be great. I just don’t know that I’ve seen a lot of examples of that happening.

Robyn: Same. I haven’t either. It is great for getting certain resources. It is great for that. But the whole point is empowerment. I am a good parent, I’m capable of figuring things out, of reaching out for support. That is exactly how we can be that healing agent, even when things are a hot mess all around us, or even within us. But we’re empowered hot messes, and that means we can figure out a way forward. And if we can figure out a way forward, our kiddos experience that, that relational sense, and when they’re older, they realize, “Oh wait, me too. I can do that too. I’m a good blah blah blah too.”

Robyn: Yeah, there are times in parenting where we see what our kid is going through and think, “Oh gosh, we messed up.” Doom and gloom. But really, it’s not necessarily the end of the story. They’re in a struggle, but because we’ve been that relational healing agent for them, they find and get that sense that they can still figure it out, they’re still a good person, still a… all of these things. Just because we’re struggling doesn’t mean we’ve lost that.

Sarai: Yep.

Sarai: You used the term hot mess. Even in the midst of feeling like a hot mess, that’s a concern a lot of parents have, like, if I’m dysregulated, that’s going to impact my child. And yes, but maybe not in the way you think, because it’s empowering when you as a parent can show up in your full, authentic human self, the light and the dark, the hot mess.

Robyn: Yep.

Sarai: The dysregulation and the regulation. It gives our children permission to be their full human selves.

Robyn: Yeah.

Sarai: I remember one of my grandchildren was really into the show Gabby’s Dollhouse. I loved that it had a growth mindset demonstrated, like, “I don’t know it yet. I can learn.” And when a mistake was made or didn’t work out, they called it a whoopsie.

Robyn: Oh, I love that!

Sarai: And it was a really beautiful way to say, it’s okay to make mistakes, that’s part of the process. Those are messages that are really powerful for this infant to early childhood range, and parents raising young children. This growth mindset, mistakes are part of the human experience, maybe we call it a whoopsie now.

Robyn: Right. Whoopsie!

Sarai: And now let’s figure out the next thing, or make the repair that needs to be made. When we think about those things and Gabor Mate’s work, which you share in basic trainings, between folks having to choose between attachment and authenticity…

Robyn: Oh, that video. Whew! Goosebumps. Yes. Powerful.

Sarai: But when we add the component of growth mindset into this developmental phase, and the whoopsie… we don’t have to give up our authenticity. We don’t have to choose between attachment or authenticity, and how we show up as parents and caregivers during early childhood years. When we can’t sit them down and explain what whoopsie means, it’s how we approach it, how we approach the relationship.

Robyn: I remember working with some families early in my practice. I thought I wanted to work with younger kids, and I realized I do not, primarily because I had a younger kid and I was struggling. I remember working with families around how to reassure your child, how to tell them, how to help them understand. I would say, “You just be. Be the way that you want them to understand you, and how you want them to learn things. If you want your child to learn the whoopsie, you have to integrate it with yourself. Be okay with, okay, we’re gonna whoopsie this, no more perfectionism.” It’s never cut and dry. We have our whoopsie moments, even in getting into our whoopsie process. Yeah, it’s about how to infuse this and make it our thing, not just a teachable moment or externalize it. It’s relational. We can be oopsie together, oopsie together too. It’s messy and funky and weird.

Also, when we do that later… For parents with young children now, infants now, and the whoopsies seem really small, you may wonder how to know it matters. When they’re 13 and they call you out on your whoopsies, you’ll see it worked. You move through that later, circle back, take responsibility, make shifts and changes. Sometimes those whoopsies that our kids inform us about, when they’re teenagers, take us back to our own growth, like, “I can shift and grow in this way because this is real.” You’ll see the evidence not in their homework or friendships, but in them calling you out and holding you accountable—they feel safe enough because you whoopsied them back in the day.

Sarai: Mm-hmm.

Sarai: Accountability and honesty are part of that equation of love, bringing your authentic self. One powerful thing about EMDR therapy, where I get excited about integrating it with this work, is thinking about the brain and its predictive processing. The brain predicts, like, “I’m a bad parent, my baby has trauma,” that’s what it starts to perceive. When we identify distress early on, through the working model of the child interview, or understanding distress points, we can update the brain. Instead of “I’m a bad parent,” it becomes “I’m a good parent. I can figure this out. Being a good parent means I get care for myself so I can care for my children. I can be my authentic self.”

Robyn: Yep.

Sarai: That’s how we create a world with adolescents who are connected to their authenticity and relationships, feel buffering relationships, feel that holding, that connection, and have healthier outcomes.

Robyn: Mm-hmm, yeah.

Robyn: Even when revealed during a time of struggle. For my past and future self, and listeners’ past and future selves… When you said that, I see the fruit of the labor through challenges, not just beautiful moments.

Sarai: Yes.

Sarai: I’ll share similar stories with parents. When we do this work, it shows up. One of my children came to me early on and said they were feeling suicidal. That was difficult but also spoke to the authenticity and attachment founded there, the relationship, because otherwise that child wouldn’t have come in that moment.

Robyn: Yes.

Sarai: Parents must be ready for the 13-year-old to call you out on your whoopsie, or children to share tender, difficult, authentic struggles. Make sure you have support and resources to hold that, because many of us didn’t have that parenting ourselves. We’re learning, trying to do it differently, holding what our children bring, going, “When I was suicidal as a kid, I never told anybody. It wasn’t safe.”

Robyn: Right, yes.

Robyn: Children coming with tough admissions—they can also tell through a proxy. That doesn’t mean they don’t have safety or authenticity. Sometimes they need a buffer, an alloparent. Adults often call a friend or sister for support before telling someone. That’s healthy!

Sarai: Absolutely.

Sarai: Years ago, at a leadership retreat, we were sharing the essence of ourselves. One woman said, “The main thing about me is I’m a good mom,” and she went on for 15 minutes about why she was an amazing mom, despite struggling as a teen parent, lacking buffering relationships and resources. Just knowing, “I’m a good mom,” can shift so much for parents and children.

Robyn: Mm-hmm, yeah.

Robyn: Everyone deserves that. Every parent trying their best deserves to feel, “I’m a good parent.”

Robyn: Mm-hmm.

Robyn: Recapping: what makes a good parent is getting the care you need, it’s not about being perfect or struggle-free. It’s about connection to your authenticity, being yourself without losing connection with your children, and feeling empowered. It takes a long road of healing, recalibrating expectations, taking accountability. The work matters even if progress feels slow.

Sarai: Absolutely. It’s never too late for repair.

Robyn: Yes.

Sarai: I’ll return to the story of the child who informed me early about their struggles with suicidality. That child is an adult now. During an EMDR basic training I was leading, the child called me and shared they’d been talking to their therapist about attachment wounds and the ways I hadn’t shown up. I leaned into what I know, my own growth, and asked, “What can I do now? How can I repair? What do you need?” This work is a journey. No arrival. I consider myself an expert in infant/early childhood mental health, attachment, EMDR therapy, mother of seven, grandmother of ten—and I’m still growing. There’s always repair to make.

Robyn: Yeah.

Sarai: A good parent isn’t perfect. Research shows perfect parenting isn’t good for children. We want human parents, good enough parents who are engaged. It’s work, sometimes heartbreaking, but being able to be humble about it is powerful.

Robyn: Wow.

Sarai: Thank you.

Robyn: Sarai, I feel like we could talk all day. Any final things for the audience, lessons or tips for working in early childhood development and relational work with new parents?

Sarai: This is relational work. Professionals not comfortable in this area should lean into early childhood/infant mental health consultation. That kind of consultation helps us bring our personal selves into therapeutic relationships to effect change. For parents: you are okay, you are good enough. If something is causing distress, help is available. Those internal schemas and predictive processes can shift. EMDR is a powerful tool to support that.

Robyn: Amazing advice to close out. Thank you again for sharing time with me, your experience, perspectives—it’s been wonderful, joyful, and I’m so grateful.

Sarai: Thank you, Robyn.

Robyn: For our listeners, if this area interests you, two nuggets from Sarai: growth mindset—you might not know yet what you need to shift or change. You might not feel ready, that’s okay. You can get there and keep growing, like Sarai. You’ll have plenty of whoopsie moments along the way. We’re here to support you. Sarai is available for consultation and training for your agency or community. Details in the show notes. Keep growing, keep whoopsying and repairing. See you next time.